Russell:  Interesting. So, your view is this freight train that's coming. What you're trying to offer at Sacred Mysteries is a philosophical and practical approach to both internal spiritual preparation, as well as a physical practical preparation.

Jay:  That's right. You have to ask yourself. Do you really want to live in a world where the guy with the most guns wins? And I think most of us will say, "No. We don't want to live in that world". Well, if we don't do the things that we're trying to do at Sacred Mysteries, we could very likely end up that way. There's a lot of crazy people stacking a lot of guns in their garages and their basements right now, and that's not going to save us. So, my answer is to create communities that are examples, prime examples, so that other communities and other people can see how it works in a good way ? then they will follow suit and that, to me, is the only way we're going to get out of this crisis.

Russell:  Absolutely. Fascinating. We're about the bottom of the hour. I think we've covered most of the main things. Sacred Mysteries offer specials on amazing videos that you've been producing all these years since you and I have left the company we were working for, where a lot of those ideas were percolating.

Jay:  Yes.

Russell:  One thing I want to bring to everyone's attention that's listening to this that excites me the most is your new release coming up. The new video on near death and dying. What's the name of it?

Jay:  Infinity ? The Ultimate Trip.

Russell:  Exactly.

Jay:  What it is I wanted it... it's really a gift that I wanted to give because I don't want people to be afraid and all fear comes from basically is the fear of death. This is what male initiation alleviates, is the fear of death. Which of course, we can't do and we do not do in this society. So, what I tried to do is construct the film as toward an initiation, so that you could see what it's like to die, talk to people who have already died and come back, and realize there's nothing to be afraid of.

When you know there's nothing to be afraid of, no one can control you. Once we get past the fear of death, governments will collapse, corporate worlds will collapse, the whole edifice of the nightmare of the Iron Age will disappear. So, that was the real goal of making the film.

Russell:  I find that interesting because the conversation you and I had the other day about the major motion picture of 2012 coming up and these other things is created by the same people that created 'Invasion' and all those other big films. 'Independence Day'.

Jay:  Independence Day.

Russell:  Yeah, the focus still seems to be on the mass destruction in a phantasmagoric destruction of the planet and it's funny because when we were talking, you were talking about the positioning. Nobody's really positioning the spiritual requirements and need of how people need to face death. And that's what excites me the most about this new release coming out.

Jay:  Yeah, me too. Me too. That's exactly right, and we're going to release the film here soon and then we're going to release the interviews in their entirety on a free disc set. So, you can really get into the heads of people of like Robert Thurman, Neale Donald Walsch, and Stan Grof . There will be no doubt.

We showed the movie to Sharon's 83 year old mother the other day. She was the oldest person to see the movie, of course she's facing her own death at that age soon. She just loved the film. I consider that an amazing victory to get a person from my parent's generation to consider what that generation probably considered to be some pretty wacky ideas and to not think that they were wacky. To think that they were hopeful. She said the movie gave her a lot of hope, and that was the entire purpose.

Russell:  Yes, that is. For our listeners, the best way to purchase the DVD's is obviously at sacredmysteries.com and I'm going to be recommending some of the other videos over other interviews. I'm going to have periodic interviews with Jay. Jay's going to be also covering interviews with his associates in other topics and subject matters that are relevant to what we're doing. I'm specifically interested in you guys listening to this.

We're really scratching the surface. Thanks Jay.

Jay:  Thanks a lot Russell.

Jay:  And it is appearing, right now. That's one of the things we're trying to do at Sacred Mysteries is to help manifest this.

It took me 40 years to get where you already were, and if we could do that with the next generation, they could be 12 or 14 years old and be as far as I am now in my mid?50's. So this is what we're trying to do, we're trying to jump start the next generation. That's really my goal, right now.

Russell:  And that's mine as well. I'm going to read a quote to you because it segues into the next question I have for you. This is a quote from a NASA jet propulsion engineer, and this was done last year, so time has moved on. He basically said that when it comes to the changes that they're watching coming down when it comes to weather, and now talking to even Hopi elders and the rest, that I wouldn't run for the hills, but it might be time to start walking. Do you agree?

What do I do? Square one, I'm an ordinary citizen sitting out there listening to Coast to Coast, or Jay Weidner, or Sharron Rose and I'm sitting there and I know something is up, because everybody is talking about it, everywhere I go, even not the new age sector. What's going on? What do I do, step one?

Jay:  It's actually ?a two part process. You have to work on the physical, and you have to work on the spiritual. So let's start with the physical, since that's less esoteric.

What do you have to do on the physical level? What you have to do on the physical level is you have top take care of yourself first, you have to take care of you family second, your have to take care of your friends third, and you have to take care of your community fourth. The reason you're first is because if you don't take care of yourself, none of the rest is going to happen.

So you need to take care of things, you need to take care of business. You need to be find community, you need to begin learning permaculture. You need to learn. You need to find out where your local sources of fresh water are. You need to learn how to grow food. You need to learn how to protect yourself. You need to buy the materials necessary to educate the future. That's said, so what's the second part?

The second part is the spiritual part. You need to love each other. You need to meditate. You need a discipline. You need to do yoga every day, or tai chi, or just meditate, sit by a tree, something. You need to calm down. That's the first thing you need to do, is to calm down. Without calming down, you're not going to be thinking clearly when the smelly brown stuff hits the spinning silver receptacle.

So this is what we're going up against and this is going to happen really, really fast. I think it's going to be the most blinding shift in the history of the world. As you are well aware of Cliff High and his alta reports, his June altar report came out. Most people that know me know that I'm a huge fan of Cliff High, and every time I'm on the radio or I give a lecture, I always sing his praises because he is a bloody genius.

Cliff High has looked down the road, and you guys need to look at halfpasthuman.com so you can understand. I don't want to get into the vagaries of how Cliff, we can later, but how Cliff discovers this stuff, but it's an ingenious method. Cliff called 911 before it happened, he called Katrina before it happened, he called the stock market crash before it happened, he called what happened in the Gaza strip in Israel before it happened, and he's saying that everything is about to collapse, and that out of this, a new world is going to happen by 2012. In less than three years this is going to happen. What's he saying is going to happen? Possibly a complete return to the earth… a complete return to community, the rebirth of the goddess.

This is very heady, exciting stuff, and I'm just lucky I'm here to witness it, and do my little bit to try to turn it in this direction. And so this is another reason why we're starting the School of the Ancient Mysteries, so that we are in our communities. We can stay linked via the Internet, hopefully it'll still be up. And we can reveal the ancient secrets to the world, while we're living in community, while we're living in ceremony, while we're living in ritual, while we're living in love.

Russell:  Now let me ask you, because I know that our listeners are probably, you slid over something that I just want to make sure that there's no kind of alchemical clue in there, something about the brown stuff hitting the what?

Jay:  The spinning receptacle.

Russell:  Explain. You mean like a toilet?

Jay:  Yeah, the poop you know?

Russell:  So you're talking about?

Jay:  I'm talking about when the shit hits the fan, baby. I'm talking about the end of this age.

Russell:  So you're talking about the test for symmetry of the whole...

Jay:  That's right, that's exactly right. And what's kind of great about what's about to happen, it sounds a little bit callous, and I'm not callous because I'm saying all this publicly because I want everyone to be saved, but not everyone is going to be saved. So you have to look and you have to say OK "Well who is going to be saved, and who isn't?" And here's the best part of this equation, the people that are going to be saved are those that are saving themselves.

Russell:  Yes.

Jay:  And those that aren't being saved are those that aren't saving themselves. And that means that the most aware people are going to be saved, and awareness is just another word for conscious. So the most conscious people are going to be saved. That means, at the end of this whole thing, after the brown stuff has already hit the spinning receptacle, this world is going to be a lot more conscious than it is now. And that's a really, really good thing.

Russell:  Also, you mentioned something just now about the Internet ? "hopefully it will be up." Let's take a look at that, because you and I have had conversations about that. We're making the last ditch effort with Sacred Mysteries to make maximum use, to optimize the use, of this amazing communication mechanism, while it's still available. What are your views on the Internet, even within the power hierarchy of the world governments and the techno?infrastructure that, as you know, all of my businesses are engaged in, what do you think will happen to the Internet as an extension of the goddess or of communication, if anything?

Jay:  I think actually, if I was Obama, or I was running the place, I wouldn't be doing anything that they're doing. What I would be doing, is I would be establishing a worldwide satellite Internet service, and then forcing computer manufacturers, and they're probably going to do this anyway, to make computers that can be run on low voltage, so that you can run your computer on solar power, and you can be on the Internet via satellite via solar power. To me, this is the only thing a world government should be doing. Everything else should be done locally.

Russell:  So you mean like...

Jay:  The only thing that should be done globally, is the Internet.

Russell:  So, you're saying the units that they gave Jim, or whatever his name was, on Jericho ? the CIA agent where he snaps open the suitcase, snaps on a solar panel, and turns on his computer and links the satellite?

Jay:  Yeah and everyone should have this ability. The world government should be giving away the computers for free, giving away all of this for free so that when the collapse comes, we're all still connected. We'll be able to call each other. We'll be able to see each other. We'll be able to communicate. Movies can be downloaded. Music can be downloaded. We don't have to really give up any of our communication devices if we get ahead of this freight train. That's really my main concern right now.

I'm a hopeful person, but I see what's going on and the laws that are being passed right now in Washington. It looks to me like they're almost trying to create the collapse. They're doing everything that you would want to do if you wanted to have a very, very serious collapse and I don't want a serious collapse. But, if it's going to come, let's at least be hooked up to the Internet so we're not isolated communities with no ability to communicate with each other. So, my main concern is I'm naturally a libertarian. So, I believe that human beings actually left to their own devices do make the right decisions most of the time. I'm a firm believer in the ability of human beings to be able to be conscious of what they're doing.

So, I really think we need a universal Internet that's available to everybody, everywhere on the Earth. From Eskimos, to people in the mid?west, to people in Russia, to people at the tip of South America. Solar?powered, and we need to get these satellites up and we need to get this now before it's too late.

Russell:  And so am I. I'm trying to drop the hints here about the Gnostic revival that seems to be happening on its own with or without our help.

Jay:  It is. That is one of the things about the quality of time. The agnostics believed basically that this was a false world and that reality was contrived by alien forces. We fell, "hook, line and sinker" for their contrived reality. We started believing that the virtual corporate world of the 20th century was actually a real world. But it wasn't. It was completely contrived by strange alien forces that do not have our best interests at hand.

Right now that world is crumbling. Hallelujah. We're moving towards the real world. The real world on the surface could sound a bit harsh. It is a world where a lot of our time will be spent growing food, for instance. The corporate farming ? which has nearly destroyed the planet ? we hope, will completely disappear. The energy that we have been using ... the energy supplies are drying up and we will be on a huge energy diet.

You can look at that and say, "Oh, how horrible. What a terrible thing." I say, "Let's Aikido the moment!" In Aikido you use the weight of your opponent against them. I say, "Let's Aikido the moment!" Let's think about this: is this really a bad thing? My answer is, "No... This is the best thing that has happened in 6000 years." We should be so happy that the old world of contrived reality, oppression and slavery, the destruction of the environment, the wholesale genocide of whole races is going away.

Yes, life is going to get tougher on the outside, but on the inside we are going to find community. We are going to be with our families and our loved ones. We are not going to be moving around the community, splitting up communities and families like we did in the corporate and industrial world. It is going to be a lot better place and the Earth will come back, I know it.

Russell:  Wow, I feel like John Stewart in the "All Stop Moment", where you just go "Wow!"

Russell:  That is seriously cool stuff. I want to bring up something about your book and talk about the Cross of Hendaye. It has been how many years since you completed the manuscript?

Jay:  10 years, actually. 10 years ago.

Russell:  Where do you stand now? Has anything changed in your philosophy since you wrote that book? In your belief structure, are there things you would say and do differently in that book because you have grown?

Jay:  Yes for sure. One thing I have done in the last few years is getting into the ancient Vedic and Puranas text in India. I wish I got into that before, more completely, before I wrote the book. I realize now, whoever constructed the Cross of Hendaye, knew the secrets of the Vedic text, knew the secrets of the ancient Puranas text and they knew the secrets of the Mahabharata. They were trying to encode it into the Cross of Hendaye.

At the very end of the Puranas text, Lord Vishnus describe the events that will occur at the end of this age. I should say not the end of this age, but at the end of the Kulpa, which is the grand age, the age of all ages. It is exactly the same description that is on the Cross of Hendaye. I realize now, which I didn't really realize then, that alchemy is the science of the ancients. It's the science of ancient India, of the Ayurvedic philosophies, of China, of Greece, of Egypt, of Persia, of even the indigenous traditions.

When we were in Peru in 2007, in ceremony with the Qero Shamans, they told me that there were people up high in the Andes, up around 18, 000 feet who have transmuted into light, into the rainbow body. This is a tradition that goes all the way back to humanity. Our real purpose in life is to transmute the human body into light. One of the things that we need to do as we reach the end of this age, in a way to construct the next human. I know that sounds crazy, but it is not so crazy.

Evolution may be driven by mutation, genetic derivation and survival of the fittest; there is no doubt that these things are right. The ability to modify your surroundings and all this: this is all true. But also there is another component that evolutionary biologists don't understand: we have a choice to evolve. The best example is the first horses, 80, 000 years ago, were about the size of small dogs. They had short legs. As time has gone on, the horse has grown bigger, taller, and the legs have extended and gotten stronger.

The scientists say, "You know, what the horse did was it evolved magically to have these long legs to escape predators: carnivores, mountain lions and wolves and all that." But the Puranas text tells us that animals have a choice. As the small horses were beginning to go extinct and the pressures of extinction began sitting on their shoulders, they then became consciously aware of why they were becoming extinct. In that moment, they could reconstruct the horse of the future. They realized they had to get away from their predators, so they collectively, consciously decided to grow longer legs.

Here we are, at the end of this age, and we need to reconstruct the human being: to fit better in our environment. Not the human being that destroys the environment, over procreates, over consumes, overweight ... I'm using "over" a lot. Doing these things in a very unhealthy way, we need to construct the human being of the future, which is us. We are the people that we have been waiting for. The Inca, the alchemists, the Qero , the Mayans, the Hindu and the indigenous traditions all teach that the next state is homo?luminous.

I really believe that is where we are headed. We are going to be lighter, more effervescent, diaphanous, creatures closer to the above than to the below and less material, more euphoric. You can see this happening: it is what the Internet and sudden Agnostic revival is about. It is us becoming translucent, us becoming able to cross great distances without leaving your home, able to go to stars and other planets without leaving your home through ceremony, ritual, a sense of the divine, which is really our destiny and place in our world. We were like this once, but we have lost tract.

We have become more concertized, more materialized. That is why we are getting heavier. That is why there are so many obese people, because as we move to the end of this age, we are getting heavier.

It is like Frodo and the ring, as he approaches Mount Doom, the ring gets heavier and heavier: that is what happening to us. As we pass the gate of time, we will become light, we will become lighter, just as Frodo became lighter after the volcano consumed the right. Here we are, at this incredible crux, where we are all Frodos. Selfishly shaking the machines and rings that have enslaved us for so long.

Russell:  When I think of Hollywood emulations of what you describe, there is Wall?E, where you have the flubbery people in outer space going back and forth on the ship and they are 400 pounds.

Jay:  I love that movie. Best movie of the year.

Russell:  Then you have the knowing, the humans of the future come back to collect on the indigo generation or the translucent.

Jay:  That movie is going to be released on July 7th and I can't wait. I will be first in line to buy my Blueray edition of "Knowing" because I think "Knowing" is the best movie of this year. I can't say enough good things about the movie. Alex Proyas, who directed it, also directed my other favorite films, which I consider the greatest Agnostic movie of all time: Dark City. He really has his finger on the pulse of what is going on here.

My own life story, parallels Nicholas Cages' story so much; I'm wondering if Alex didn't hear me on "Coast to Coast" because I'm not an astrophysicist as Nicholas is in the movie, but I was an atheist. I didn't believe in anything except science, for most of my life.

When I discovered the Cross of Hendaye .... Just as Nicholas Cage discovered the code on the paper that the psychic girl had left behind, the Cross of Hendaye was my psychic code. I saw the pattern. I realized that this pattern was impossible, unless this world was far different than what I thought it was. I shed the scientific paradigm, just as Nicholas Cage does in that movie.

I moved closer to the divine, just as he does. This is where we are all headed. The knowledge of the end of time, the knowledge of the end of this age, is creating a deal of stress and pressure on our race. In that stressful pressure filled moment, we're going to see the answers. Necessity is the mother of invention. As long as when you need it, will it appear?

Russell:  Yes.

Russell Wright:  Hi Folks, this is Russell Wright . Jay Weidner is with us today. Jay is part of the company Sacred Mysteries Productions and has made some great films like 2012 The Odyssey and Timewave 2013 and his new hit, the award winning documentary Infinity: The Ultimate Trip., thank you so much for being on the line with us today.

Jay Weidner:  It's great to be here.

Russell:  Now, you and I have had tons of conversations through the years, A lot of the behind closed doors about all different topics. You have been a wealth of information for me on all kinds of things including Alchemy. Alchemy is just one of the many areas that when studying personally with you, I learned a ton about ... it really opened my eyes in my early 20's. We've known each other for over 10 years. Amazing huh?

Jay:  Ah yes. 12, 13 years I've known you.

Russell:  After meeting you and getting educated on some of these things my life opened up into all kinds of possibilities and insights. That is some of the stuff I want to talk about today. I want to give you interview style for our members, what is going on the world right now?

Jay:  Well it is literally the end of the age. The Ancient, the Hindu's the Mayans the Alchemist, the Egyptians, the Native and Indigenous traditions, they all knew that time was actually cyclical. It is only in recent modern history in the West, that we come to believe that time is linear. Time is not linear. We can use linear time to our advantage to say: running businesses, making sure the planes take off on time or meeting someone for dinner at a restaurant at the same time.

Linear time is very useful, but it is only a tool, it is not really real. There is no such thing as linear time. Everything is literally happening at once. But there is a quality to time. That quality changes just like how six in the morning is different than noon and noon is different than midnight. Spring is different from summer or fall is different from winter. There are seasons of time and we are at the very end of a season of time. The quality is changing. The quality of time is evolving and changing. It is now a little past midnight; we are moving into a new day.

This new day is going to have a completely different set of rules, a completely different set of being and we are headed towards this thing like a proverbial freight train coming out of the tunnel. And we're not really ready. That is my main concern. I am practically old enough to retire, but I realize how important it is to convey this information, from the Ancients, about this time period. That is one of the reasons why all of us have set the School up together.

We want to make sure that the knowledge that we were able to pick up during the last age is conveyed and pushed into the next age, to help the next age realize what it's purpose it, what it's doing and to alleviate the mass confusion that is going to occur, that is already occurring as we move from one age to another. It is an incredibly important time.

Russell:  Exactly. There are some questions that I want to jump right into that I want to save for the members only because they are kind of heavy. Is the light at the end of the tunnel and freight train, or is it God?

Jay:  It's both.

[laughter]

Jay:  You have to realize that the destruction of this age is inevitable. The freight train is going to destroy this age, but at the very front of the freight train is a very bright light. For those who know what to do, they know that the freight train is bringing the light. Imagine you are in a tunnel and a freight train is coming at you. You somehow are able to skirt and hang close to the wall of the tunnel and the freight train goes by you.

So then, what is there? What is there is of course the bright sun shining through the tunnel. The smart people are going to know how to avoid the freight train. The dumb people are going to get run over. I'm just barely trying to help the smart people avoid collisions. Russell:  Got it. We also talked about ... you realize how Gnostic that sounds right? What you just describe?

Jay:  I do because I'm a Gnostic.

Jay Weidner:   When you all get a chance, check out www.sacredmysteries.com for great films and videos including the two films that helped start the 2012 movement: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013.

We're talking to Timothy Beckley. Hey, Timothy, remember that movie, you remember another movie with Nancy Reagan, where God spoke to the people of the Earth through the radio? The Next Voice You Hear.

Timothy:  Yeah, I did. Is that an old Twilight Zone? I mean, I think it's...

Jay:  No, there's a movie; I only saw it once. It came out in the '50s which starred Nancy Davis, and it was one of the creepiest films I've ever seen. It was a very Christian film, and it was about how God spoke through the radio and told earth that they'd better straighten up or he was going to destroy us.

Timothy:  I don't remember that one, no.

Jay:  It was strange.

Timothy:  Hey, Jay, let me finish my synchronicity story here, OK?

Jay:  Please.

Timothy:  So, I'm on the Long John Show and I'm talking about these UFO experiences that people have had in New York and so forth. So, the next day I get a phone call at my office. There's a gal who does a column for a New York magazine. It's called Best Bets. It's on the last page, and basically it's a list of what's happening in New York, a list. I don't know how to explain it, a list, like top 10 things to do, anyway. She heard this, and she wanted a list of the top best 10 UFO sightings in New York.

So, I gave her the phone numbers of a few people to call or names that I remember about people that have had experiences. And then, at the end of the conversation, I guess, maybe, we talked for about half an hour or so, I say, "Terry ? her name is Terry Clifford.

I said, "Terry, let me send you some more material, a little bit about my bio" and so forth. I said, "Well, where should I send it?" And she said, "Well, send it to apartment blah?blah?blah, 6R, 11 East 96th Street in Manhattan?"

I said, "What address?" "11 East 96th Street." It's not the right address, but 11 East 96th Street, New York, New York. I said, "Well, are you in the same building I am?" It turned out she lived two floors above me, but that's not quite the end of the story.

Now, Terry and I ? I can't say we became the best of friends, but it's a very small building. We're talking about six apartments or eight apartments in the building. So, we'd see each other in the hallway or in the elevator. We' always had a laugh for years, "Hey, hey, there you are in the same building, synchronicity coincidence, blah, blah, blah."

She was into metaphysical subjects. In fact, she wrote the first book on the Dali Lama. She traveled with the Dali Lama throughout India wherever during one of the summers in the mid or late 1960s, right? In fact, her book was published by Samuel Weiser, Samuel Weiser being probably the first granddaddy of all the New Age publishers.

And so, like I said, we met every once in a while in the elevator, a little rickety elevator ride down. I'd meet her. I'd get on the fourth floor. She'd be on the sixth. We'd go down, and she passed away a few years after I had the... She had a brain tumor. Of course, I've told this story quite a few times.

Last year I'm in a rather ? let's put it. Let's tell it like it is, a rather sleazy bar in Greenwich Village, Manhattan. I'm sitting there having a drink with a lady friend of mine at the end of the bar and just kibitzing and getting a little bit more inebriated as the night goes on. But I'm over 21 so that's legal, and there's a fellow...

Now, like I said, this is Greenwich Village so it's usually a very casual place. People wear jeans. It's a college crowd because it's near NYU, New York University.

Well, there's a fellow standing next to us, a little bit older than the rest of the crowd, and doesn't quite seem to fit in. But there he is and he seems to be having a good time. He offered to buy me and my friend a drink.

So, I said, "It looks like you're doing a little bit of celebrating. What are you celebrating?" And he said, "Oh, I just got a..." and he named a very hefty advance from a major publisher. And I said, "Gee that's great! I'm a publisher myself," but my advances are far lower than the $200, 000 he had gotten.

So I asked him what was the subject, and it was a self?help book. In fact, I remember his name was Phil?I thought of Dr. Phil from TV?it wasn't him, but it was the same kind of self?help material. So I got to talking, and telling him this is what I publish too, and somehow we got to talking about this incident with this gal that lived two floors above me.

Well, he just turned ashen white. He said, "That lady, Terry, was the love of my life. I was with her on that trip that she made with the Dalai Lama, and if you turn to the acknowledgements in her book, you'll find that I'm mentioned there."

So I said, "You know, I think maybe if there is such a thing as communication from the other side, maybe she's saying hello to you, because I don't think it's a message for me, but there certainly is some relevance in my bringing up this topic."

And I said "What are you doing? Are you going to write anything more about this?" And he said "No, but I'm on my way to England to deliver a talk." It's something like a meeting or a conference for psychiatrists or psychologists.

And I said, "Do me a favor. They could be a skeptical [?] life. Would you tell that story that I just told you to at least three of them, and see if it has any impact on their careers or on their life."

So I just went away thinking it must have been a message for him. It was like I was transmitting this to tell him that she was still thinking of him, and thanks for mentioning her in his book.

Jay:  Yeah, I'll tell you ? My new movie "Infinity" is about life after death, and we interviewed quite a few people, and I'll tell you that... I don't know, there's certainly something there, there's no doubt. There are too many similar stories, if you know what I mean.

Timothy:  Yes.

Jay:  Synchronicities are strange. We live in a world where conspiracies are frequently called coincidences, and I think it was William Irwin Thompson who once said that he thought conspiracy theorists were beginning Buddhists, because they could see the underlying connection between everything. And I really wonder if possibly there is some connection between all of this and some kind of matrix of reality that binds everything together, but we can't really see the connections, they're like invisible.

Timothy:  I feel the same way. There's a continuity to a life, I think, but in what sense? Charles Fort, who of course was one of the big collectors of oddities strange obkects, disappearances, the Bermuda Triangle and so forth and so on... He always felt that we were like a giant chess game, and there were people that were manipulating the chess pieces for good or for bad, and I guess that's what I figured too, but I don't know.

This is like John Keels' thinking on the subject as well. Do they have the same thinking patterns as we do?

We think of aliens as coming here from other planets, and we assume that they must think exactly. Why don't they make open contact? Why don't they land on the White House lawn? Well, maybe, they're not even thinking of that.

Jay:  No, I don't think they are.

Timothy:  You know, I mean, there's an entirely different life pattern or thought processes that goes throughout the universe, and just because the human race thinks in one mode doesn't everybody... It's like radio bands, right? I mean, the CB bands. You've got all these different bands, and people are operating on different levels. I think that's the way it is in the universe.

These other beings, often dimensionals, time travelers or whatever they might be, are not necessarily thinking the same things that we are or have the same ideas in mind. They're going about their own agenda, and I'm not sure if I landed here from some other planet I would want anybody to know that I was here either.

Jay:  I wouldn't either, actually.

Timothy:  No, I don't think that I want people to know that I'm here as it is [laughs] .

Jay:  Yeah, exactly. Any thinking person has to be paranoid at this stage. I agree with your point of view and Keels' point of view. I think that's actually the best explanation for what's happening here. There is a game, and we don't even know that we're in the game, at least, most of us don't. What we do is a synchronicity...

Timothy:  Maybe, you and I know that we're in the game, but we don't know what the rules are.

Jay:  Well, that's true. It's like playing chess with Bobby Fischer and you're blindfolded.

Timothy:  Yeah.

Jay:  I don't know. It's so impossible to get people who have not seen this to see it.

Timothy:  That's right.

Jay:  It's impossible. It is unbelievable.

Timothy:  Well, you know something though, it's not, actually, everybody has to come along that path on their own, and I'd be the last person to try to shove any of this down anybody's throat. In fact, I've been involved in making movies. I've been in and out of promoting musical bands. I've done a lot of different things.

And people always say, "Oh, you don't want to tell anybody that you're into UFOs or anything. They'll think you're weird." I don't know, some people think I'm weird and other people, they like to hear what the latest scoop is even if they don't necessarily believe it.

Well, you don't force it down people's throat. If they're interested, they're interested. If they're not, let's go have a beer and watch the baseball game.

Jay:  I agree with you. When I first got into this business, if that's what you call it, I had a show on Public Radio, a very liberal crowd listening, and they would invite me over to their parties sometimes. This was in Seattle, and I'd get disinvited from their parties because I'd start talking about this kind of stuff and scare the living daylights out of everyone.

Timothy:  Now, you'd be on the A list.

Jay:  Well, I am. That's what I was just going to say. Now, I'm getting invited to parties, and they're disappointed if I don't tell them.

Timothy:  There you go, right? Sometimes, you just don't even want to, like I've said this 15 times before.

Jay:  Exactly. Well, we have been talking to Timothy Beckley. I really appreciate it. You can find his site at ConspiracyJournal.com and thanks, Tim. It was really enjoyable.

Timothy:  You're welcome, and if there are any horror film fans out there, go to MrCreepo.com, [spells] [laughs] .

Jay:  There you go.

Timothy:  Have fun. Get educated and learn because that's what life is all about.

Jay Weidner:   I'm Jay Weidner reminding you of our great website www.sacredmysteries.com where you can always find the best in spiritual videos and films. Our new film Sophia Returning: The Path to Planetary Tantra with Gnostic scholar John Lash is out.

We're talking to Timothy Beckley, writer of some 30 books. You can go to his website conspiracyjournal.com?very interesting site. Timothy, I wrote a book about this mysterious cross in the South of France, and I spent from 1986 to 1999 working on this project, and finally published in 1999 the first of two books.

One of the things that happened to me during this research was a really strange amount of synchronicities, sometimes of an unbelievable nature, like a book that I really needed appearing just sitting on an airport seat while I was at the airport. A book that actually changed the research completely.

So I'm wondering, have you had any of this kind of thing happen to you?

Timothy:  I have had so many. First of all, I want to say your book "The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye" is just a fabulous read.

Jay:  Well, thank you.

Timothy:  I'm selling copies I bought from your publisher. I think I still have a few left here, and of course your DVD on the same subject is just absolutely marvelous. It affected me. I've always been interested in alchemy, but too stupid to study it! [laughs] It's an absolutely fascinating read, and it's marvelous how you managed to fit all those pieces together. Someone needs to do a Hollywood movie on that.

Jay:  They should!

Timothy:  An actual fabulous book. Yes, synchronicities have had...I've had a lot of them, and I don't know why. People say, "Well, it shows that you're in tune with the universe." Well, some days I feel like I'm in tune with the universe... on other days, I don't feel like I have anything in common with it at all. I could tell you a couple little instances right here that really are just beyond... even synchronicity or coincidences have to have their limits.

Maybe 20 years or so ago... 25, maybe even 30. Whatever it was, I was invited to speak to a conference of people in San Francisco. It was the National UFO Congress, I think it was. They had a nice group, I think 300?400 people showed up.

I gave my talk, and the promoter?his name was Dale Rettig, I remember?he had been another teenage researcher. We all started out with a UFO groups that were organized by teenagers back in the 60's. Now we're a bunch of old men, but in those days we were in our late teens or early twenties, and I was no exception.

Anyway, I had given this talk and it was on a Saturday night, and I was leaving the next day on Sunday, but we had some time to kill because the flight back east was maybe 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon.

So we decided, let's go out for brunch. Now, I had never been to San Francisco before that, I hadn't seen the cable cars, and the whole thing, and I guess it was something we wanted to do; we had some time to kill.

So we decided to go have a brunch, and we picked the place at random. I certainly had not been there before, and neither had the promoter, his wife, or the three or four people that were with us.

So we went into this nice restaurant/bar, and had the usual brunch, and a Bloody Mary to start out with, and so on, and to keep the conversation going, I'm telling the promoters, "I wish I had a little more foresight and I had thought to call some of the people that I know who had moved out here from New York," because I just hadn't communicated with them in a while.

Now, I had one of the first metaphysical cult groups in New York. We had the New York School of Cult Arts and Sciences down on 14th Street, and we had meetings and psychic readers, and sold metaphysical books, and in those days ? this would have been the late 1960's ?

I don't think there was anybody else really doing that. It was just starting?the whole New Age thing was just starting...

Anyway, one of the fellows who had lectured for me and had given a couple of classes was a psychic by the name of Alan Vaughan. Now, Alan Vaughan was a very colorful person. Not only was he a psychic, but he had a great sense of humor, and we always liked each other.

We got along well and I thought he always did a very good job of getting his message and his information across to people. He was one of the boys, so to speak, very down to earth. He never let this go to his head or anything like that.

Anyway, he had moved from New York to San Francisco to become editor of a magazine called Psychic. It was a very glossy magazine and very prestigious magazine devoted to parapsychology and the paranormal that was published from the mid?sixties; I think maybe to the early nineteen seventies.

For a magazine, it had a long run, because magazines, as a rule, don't last very long, except for faith [?] , which there's nothing else like that. Most magazines on the paranormal and when the publisher realized they're not going to make any money and when they lose interest, then decide they're going to go on to something else.

Anyway, so Alan Vaughn was one of these fellows that I should have called, but of course I didn't. Anyway, he was sitting there drinking a Bloody Mary and having lunch... brunch and in walks this fellow with a dog on a leash and I look at him at I'm like, "Gee, that looks a lot like Alan Vaughn."

Now here's a city, how many people live in San Francisco? A couple million?

Jay:  One point eight million.

Timothy:  Close, OK, close enough. Right?

Jay:  Yeah.

Timothy:  Anyway, I said to myself: Well, this can't be Alan Vaughn. Why would he come in five minutes after I just talked about him?" That's impossible, right? OK, so I called the fellow over, he looks at me and I look at him, I said, "Aren't you Alan Vaughn?" and he says, "Yes, I'm Alan Vaughn." I said, "Well, what are you doing here?" I tell him I'd given a lecture down in blah, blah, blah. He said, "Well I don't know, I was just out walking my dog and I just thought I wanted to come in and have a beer."

OK, so he sat down of course, I introduced him to my friends. And I said, "Well this is quite a coincidence, isn't it Alan?" And he said, "Yeah, but you know I've been working on a book on synchronicity."

And he said, "I guess I'm going to use this in the book, I think it's case number 17, in his little paper back book, which is out of print, but you can find it once and a while on synchronicity and coincidence. Now what are the chances, one point eight million, I think you can even double that, I mean, it's...

Jay:  Oh, God.

Timothy:  It's totally unlikely. Right, I mean it's...

Jay:  Completely.

Timothy:  It doesn't happen. All right here's another one. This one is a little bit funnier. I was on the "Long John Show" one night. And I was talking about UFOs and ghost stories in the New York area. Right, for some reason that came up: why do people always see UFOs that live in the country or are farmers on tractors at six am? I said, "Well that's not true, there are UFO sightings everywhere. It's a phenomenon that encompasses the whole globe from small cities to the biggest towns and New York is no exception."

In fact you probably know that [inaudible 27:05] wrote a book about this lady Linda, who actually was levitated out of her window over the Brooklyn Bridge and went inside their ship and were witnesses and all to this. Anyways...

Jay:  Oh, was that story, hang on. We have to take a break. But was that story actually true? That was true?

Timothy:  Well, I didn't go up with her. [laughs]

Jay:  But do you think that story was true?

Timothy:  I don't know, I mean I know the lady. She's a very nice woman. In fact, we had her out to one of our conferences in Phoenix that we were organizing. And had her sit up for a workshop that only a couple of people signed up. And she still did the workshop. We went into the bar, had a beer with the people and she gave her talk. She's a very believable lady. I don't know if...

Jay Weidner: I am here to remind everyone of our website www.sacredmysteries.com where you can find the best in spiritual videos and films. Our newest set of Qi Gong instructional videos are out titles The Alchemy of Qi Gong with master teacher Pedram Shojai. Check out www.jayweidner.com for more high weirdness.

Speaking of high weirdness, we're here with Timothy Beckley ? what my wife would probably call a madman, as she calls me, doesn't know what I'm doing and is wondering why I hang out with so many weird people. And I was going to ask you, Tim. I see on your bio here that you're a horror film fan. Is that true?

Timothy:  Actually I have to blame that on Nancy Reagan, believe it or not.

Jay:  [laughs]

Timothy:  Which I know might sound pretty strange. But I don't know if most people realize, but Nancy Reagan before she became Mrs. Reagan, was Nancy Davis.

Jay:  That's right.

Timothy:  An actress in Hollywood who did ? I don't know what her background is, to be honest with her. But the movie that influenced me is a film that she did called, "Donovan's Brain."

Jay:  "Donovan's Brain."

Timothy:  And it was shot in black?and?white. And I'm not sure what year, but I think in the early 1950s. Anyway, I know as a kid, it was being broadcast on television. And I guess it was on at a reasonably late hour. I wanted to see it, but my mother wouldn't let me stay up that late because I had school the next day. Not that that normally mattered, but I couldn't sneak under the covers and listen to it like I did "Long John."

But my mother wanted to watch it, of course. I could hear the movie in the next room. And I remember hearing the sound of Donovan's brain being kept alive in a jar, I guess, or something like that, right?

It was one of these brains?go?out?of?body, or something. And I could hear the sound of the machinery pumping: "ba?boom, ba?boom, ba?boom, ba?boom." Anyway, it frightened the bejesus out of me for some reason that I really can't explain.

But I guess in a sense it was a good horror movie. Because today you have all these special effects, so that ruins it for me. The whole thing about a horror movie is the shadows and the sounds and so forth.

Anyway, after that night I couldn't go to sleep without sleeping with a nightlight on. But I saw that movie. It was on TV maybe about 10 or 15 years ago and I said, "This movie frightened me so much when I was young. Now I have to see the real film."

Well, I turned that movie on and I shut it off in 15 minutes. It was so boring. Horror movies have come a long way since that was made. And the acting wasn't all that great and the theatrics weren't all that great either, except for the brain being kept alive in a jar: "ba?bumm, ba?bumm, ba?bumm." [laughter]

I always enjoyed horror movies. And I guess that had a great impact on me, because later on in life I started working for a couple of small movie companies around Times Square. I had an office in Manhattan. I worked for Jim Moseley. He had a magazine, "Saucer News."

I would come into the city ? this was back when I was in my late teens ? and I went around Times Square, and in those days you could see two movies for a buck including a newsreel and a cartoon, although I don't think on Times Square they were too interested in the cartoon.

Anyway, a lot of them were horror movies and so forth and so on, and I met a lot of the small movie producers who had offices around Times Square.

I met a few of them, and I got into the movie business when I wasn't working in publishing. Because I edited over the years probably about 30 different magazines, none of which lasted more than a couple of issues. But I met some of these small?time producers and I became the publicist for their film companies. And then I...

Jay:  Did you know Jack Harris? He did "The Blob," and ...

Timothy:  Well, I didn't meet him. But I knew quite a few of these fellows. There was a fellow, Sherman, who had a company who actually became very much interested and involved in UFOs over the years. He has a movie out about the UFO contacts at Edwards Air Force Base. Anyway, I met some of these guys who went to work for these little film companies promoting their little horror movies, and later on I decided I wanted to become a horror movie person myself, so I put out a series of movies under the name of "Mr. Creepo Presents," and they were some pretty wild low?budget things.

They're being repackaged and some of them will be put out early next year by Reality Entertainment...

Jay:  Oh, they're good.

Timothy:  And they're available now on Amazon.com. If you just look up Mr. Creepo, you'll find the videos, and some of them are on vampires, and I've written books on were wolves and everything. My publishing company, Inner Light Global Communications, we started out mainly as UFOs and New Age, but you've got to move on, if you're going to be a successful publisher, and to stay in business you've got to go with what people are interested in.

So we've done books on psychic pets, and we've published books by Brad Steiger, and Commander X we pointed out, and Tim Swartz, and so forth, so we're very eclectic, and we keep going and we do a lot of different things, because not everybody's interested in the same thing. So we give them a little bit of everything out there.

In fact, we put out a bi?monthly newsletter which is available online, conspiracyjournal.com, or it's available through the mail, if people don't have the Internet, or they want a hard copy to look at, and we always come out with probably six new books a month that are our own, some video tapes and products from other producers and publishers and so forth.

So we present this with an open mind and attitude and let people decide what path they want to take and study. We present it, and then you decide.

Jay:  That's what I do, too.

Timothy:  Yes, you do! And a very good job you do.

Jay:  Well, thank you. I used to actually write horror films, believe it or not.

Timothy:  Is that right? Did you do "Donovan's Brain"?

Jay:  I did not. I was about two years old when that movie came out.

Timothy:  Nobody will take credit! [laughs]

Jay:  I won't take credit for the ones I wrote either. [They laugh] They were pathetic. I'm a big horror film fan myself, Tim. And I agree with what you said about modern horror?it's too techy.

Jay Weidner:   I'm Jay Weidner, and you're listening to one of the more intelligent shows on the air. I want to remind you all my new movie "Infinity" is out. If you want to get more information on that you can go to our website at http://www.Jayweidner.com or http://www.sacredmysteries.com.

And let's see here we a good guest tonight, someone we've been wanting to talk to for a long time. So I'm going to cut short all my talk and go straight to him; we have Timothy Green Beckley. UFO and paranormal pioneer. . I think I've read about 15 of his books.

Timothy Green Beckley:  Oh my goodness.

Jay:  Made a major influence on my life, and I didn't even realize they were his books, a lot of them. So I guess I have you to blame for me I guess Timothy.

Timothy:  Well my goodness, I guess that's a good sign. I hope so anyway.

Jay:  Yeah, yeah, you've been around the block. There is no doubt about it.

Timothy:  Well I've been around the universe.

Jay:  Yeah, really and truly this guy, folks, he actually was on Long John Neville's show right.

Timothy:  Yeah, I was.

Jay:  God what am I hearing.

Timothy:  John was the all night pioneer of paranormal radio.

Jay:  The Art Bell of his day.

Timothy:  He was, yes. I'm sure John... well they don't even deny it, George Noory has mentioned Long John on the air. Everybody who's who in the UFO, and physic, metaphysical field would have to give some sort of tribute to Long John. Although he was not... you have to separate from the hosts of today because John was not necessarily a believer. He was more of a storyteller and a trendsetter. He liked to get up there and stay all night and listen to these individuals who claimed they had been to other planets.

He had on the contactees. These are the people who actually stated the UFO and new age movement, if you want to call it that. They would get on his show and they would talk about their trips to other places and the solar system and beyond.

People like George Adamsky and George Van Tassel. There was a fellow from Arkansas who always wore overalls, that was Buck Nelson, who claimed that him and his dog Poe had been to the Mars moon and Venus.

They were others like Dan martin, and Truman Detrum who met Aura reins the lady from the planet Clairum that existed from beyond the Sun. The list just went on and on.

One of my favorites a gentleman who I know fairly well, he just passed away a couple of months ago in his 80's, Howard Menger. Howard Menger was the best known of the east coast contactees. Most of these contacts were taking place in and around California. While Howard lived in the town of High Bridge, New Jersey.

Howard was a sign painter. Fairly well established in the neighborhood there; a very rural area. Howard had grown up in Brooklyn New York, but I guess the parents decided they wanted to leave the big city and live a more quiet life out in the rural area. So they moved out to High Bridge when Howard was ten years old.

Now he and his brother use to play out in the pasture behind the farmhouse there. On a number of occasions they would be out playing in the back and these silvery disk shaped object would come over and when Howard was ten years old he claims that one of these crafts actually landed in the field near by and he established contact with the beings on board this craft.

Now they visited him over a period of, oh I guess many, many years, it would be 30 years or more. There were people who would come to Howard's house because they heard that these ships were landing there.

And I have even talked to a number of them on the telephone who claimed that while they were at Howard's house they decided to go out back after it got dark, and they were some apple orchards back there if I remember correctly.

And they would see these lights tinkling off in the distance, right just above the ground. And on a number of occasions Howard would tell them to stay back and he would approach these lights.

And they'd see people getting out of the lights or conversing with Howard and they could actually hear the voices of these people off in the distance and measured... actually took some photographs of whoever it was he was speaking with.

And some people felt these contacts were actually going on. And he told some pretty wild and amazing stories. I mean he claimed that he had actually been on board these craft.

He actually taken a trip to the moon where there was an established UFO base, but these stories... I was just attracted to them. I didn't necessarily say I would believe them 100%, but I was in awe. This was the time when the whole world was thinking about traveling in space. It was a novelty, it was something new.

We had our own astronauts. It was something people hadn't heard before. UFO's of course had always been around, but it was a novelty to most people. It certainly intrigued me.

At a very young age I would sit there under the covers with my first transistor radio and listen to Long John when I should be going to sleep, and getting up early in the morning to go to school, but I would rather listen to Howard Menger, and tails of the UFO contactees, trips to other planets.

I guess that had a whopping big impact on my life for better or worse.

Jay:  Yeah, well I mean I think he had a big impact on a lot of people who listened to him. I've seen one UFO. I was near Vandenberg Air Force base and this was about seven years ago. I was looking up, it was up in the mountains, and beautiful starlit night and I noticed a star went and blinked out on me and then came back on and so I looked really close and I saw. I can't say a saw an object; I saw a round black thing that was blocking out the stars as it passed overhead. And it left a... it had a wake it looked like almost, like a heat wave wake. But I have since thought that it was maybe it was some electro magnetic radiation I was seeing, I'm not sure.

But anyway, I have actually seen a UFO. What do you think they are honestly after all these years of looking?

Timothy:  I think I'm more puzzled now then I think I ever was. You know when we see say a UFO. Basically a UFO is an unidentified object. It can be way up in the sky, on the rim of the Earth's atmosphere, it could be something that cases an airplane pilot, and it could be something that's at tree level, or could be something that's on the ground. It could be something outside the house, it could be something sometimes that even invades your property.

UFO's are I think a lot of different things. You know I think for a long time we had a tendency to believe that UFOs were these metallic spaceships from other planets.

And of course, there have been any number of reports where airplane pilots have been buzzed by these things. There have been many incidences where there have been power failures and electrical interruptions because a UFO has gotten too close, just like in the movie, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

But I think UFOs are a lot of different things. Some of them could well be from outer space. Some could be from other dimensions, what we call altered terrestrials. Some, possibly, time?travelers. Some are tied in with the religious phenomena and mythology.

So UFOs ? I don't know, each one has to be determined on its own merits. And how in the heck do you do that?

Jay:  I don't know. I've been reading the same stuff that you have and looking for years. And oh, I've read Commander X and John Keel, and John Keel's one of my very...

Timothy:  Well, John of course has now passed away...

Jay:  Yes, he has.

Timothy:  ... in June of this year, and he was a good friend of mine. We were more then just UFO people working it together. We had the same interest in movies and so we socialized quite a bit. And of course, he wrote quite a bit about what he felt were beings that were coming over from some other reality or from some other dimension. He did not see UFOs as being solid, physical craft from somewhere else. He's probably best known for the book "The Mothman Prophecies," which later was made into a movie starring Richard Gere. And people were [inaudible 09:46] .

Jay:  What did John think of that movie?

Timothy:  What did he think of it? Well, John had been involved. Of course, he's been a producer for a lot of TV shows. He'd worked in the film industry and things like that. So he realized that it wasn't exactly 100 percent based on the book. But you know, Hollywood is Hollywood. And sometimes you've got to look the other way in order for an idea or a storyline to get developed. And there a lot of things you might be able to write about in a book that aren't going to project very well in the theater. And people go to the movies, they want to be entertained. That's the bottom line, or for the most part.

So he did not have any great criticisms against it. I think he realized it was what it was, and he was happy that it got to be made. To me, it's kind of like the same thing with the contactees. They might have had some experiences, and at some times they might have just been over sensationalistic.

But they got their point across. And sometimes people come to a belief or they come to an idea through different paths.

Some people might be turned on to UFOs because of a documentary they see on TV. Other people might be turned onto it because they saw "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." People have different paths in life, and I think John realized that.

And it might not have been 100 percent the way that he would've wanted to make the film, but I think he was happy with it. He got a kick out of the action and finally ...

Jay:  I actually liked it. I thought it was a pretty good film.

Timothy:  Yeah, I did too.

Jay Weidner:  One last reminder about our website www.sacredmysteries.com. Our new film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip: Journey Beyond Death has finally been released to rave reviews. The film features Neale Donald Walsch, Gregg Braden, Dannion Brinkley, Alberto Villoldo and many others.

We're here with Cliff High, and we're talking about some very serious stuff here, and I think you guys should be listening because it may get down to surviving here. So the Nazis were really into this ? and they got a little panicked because their numbers told them that the thing wasn't going to happen until 2440, around there, and so they couldn't reconcile the two. And the entire 20th century ? it sounds crazy ? is a direct result of their fear of what is coming.

Cliff:  Their fear that they were wrong in their math.

Jay:  Exactly. And it went into a panic state, created the Nazis, the Zionists, the ? everything was a creation by them for an endgame. There was no Cold War, they were puppet mastering both sides to conquer the hyperdimensional aspects of the saucer technology. And I call it Project GOOD. GOOD stands for "Get Out of Dodge." And I think [laughs] I mean, this sounds crazy, but I think they're abandoning the Earth, they're so dang afraid of what's going on.

Cliff:  Well, there's the other issue though, too, if they're just planning on trucking out into space, that doesn't do them any good, especially on anything that's electromagnetic, because the level of magnetics that we're talking about it just going to be huge.

Jay:  No, I think that they're burying themselves on Mars, actually.

Cliff:  OK.

Jay:  It's the only thing they can do. There's a lot of proof of a lot of weird things going on on Mars, and I think that it's been going for maybe the last 40 years or so.

Cliff:  And also, unlike Earth, Mars ? if you wanted to tunnel in and be underground when this occurred, Mars would be the place to go. Its relationship to the Sun and relative to Earth is it's slightly further out, so it may not be impacted as seriously, plus it doesn't appear to have the tectonic issues that we do.

Jay:  It doesn't. There are no tectonic plates, there are no magnetic fields. At least I don't think there are. And yeah, I think that's what's going on, and I think it's pretty obvious, actually, to anyone watching. And furthermore, the texts, the ancient Indian texts say that the elites escape and go somewhere. And they actually name the planet, which is Mahar, which is pretty close to Mars. So I don't know, I think that might be the explanation for a lot of what's going on, everything from flying saucers to conspiracies.

Cliff:  All the other goofy stuff, yeah.

Jay:  Yeah. All the conspiracies could be united. This is the grand unified theory of conspiracies, you see. And basically, they're just getting out of Dodge and doing everything they can to get out. And I don't know, do you think that they can be safe underground, like...

Cliff:  There are issues in many different levels, then. If you're talking multiple generations, no, I don't think that's possible. And then you may have to, because who knows how long it's going to take here? There are some indications that volcanism should be extraordinary for 30 or 40 years after this event, so coming back in that period of time wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. So there are all of those kinds of things. Plus, if I'm correct, humans right now are responding in the way that Gurdjieff referred to with the solar looniness right? We're getting a little wacky from this extra input from the Sun.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  And when that magnetic wave goes through, we may indeed find that the 6% or 7% of the populace that is electromagnetic sensitive could be in a world of hurt, maybe even experiencing this thing as a gravity wave, or it may be so severe that we all feel it that way, and that's going to cause dislocation mentally for a great number of people, just ? I'm assuming. But it may be so large that it could be virtually everyone no matter where you are.

Jay:  I think so. Actually, I think ? I don't know. I'll tell you what, you're one of the few guys that I've ever heard who has noticed the change in the color of the Sun. And I'm an amateur photographer, and I've been photographing the Sun for about 45 years, and I'm telling you, I have had to change my filters because the Sun is getting so bright. And I'm adding, now, three neutral?density filters on to get good images of the sun, sunspots and things. And the sun has gone from a yellow, when I was a kid, to a very bright white right now.

Cliff:  Right. And as I'm fond of saying, Superman would have no powers if he showed up today. He's be in a white sun.

Jay:  [laughs]

Cliff:  Just like his home planet. So it's like, "Hmm." No, I did a whole series of sun experiments here in the northwest for, jeez, well over a year and a half, in the 1999 through 2000 period. Drove my wife crazy. I'm sure she thought I was just absolutely nuts.

I had these Secchi?disk kind of things sitting out there to judge whiteness and color, and then also various different types of nomen and various different chunks of plywood with nails chunk in them for alignment and all this other issue, as well as getting out with the sextant, because I was convinced that the sun was behaving oddly in other ways, not just in color and intensity and hue but also in the various different kinds of energies that were coming from it.

And indeed, the Russians were speaking then of the actinic rays going up to the point where they were finding issues with livestock in the Siberia and other areas, where they were attempting to build an economy based on, basically, reindeer herding. And they were having issues relative to the poor reindeer, and even the people, because of the actinic rays. So things were changing, even in 1999, that were at a noticeable level.

And then you start looking outside the US mainstream media, the propagandistic press, and you find all kinds of corroborating information that things just are not right. And no one discusses it here because, of course, then it would break the illusion.

I mean, we all live in the wonderful world of Freemasonry America, the 32nd?degree Scottish Rite version of it all. And we're not to criticize. Bush isn't a moron, the dollar isn't going to die, everything's going to be quite nice, and so on. So, we just don't hear it, and it doesn't exist. Unfortunately, it does exist, and we've got to start facing it.

Jay:  It may be the solar lunatics, who knows, because if they're all acting, then they should all get Academy awards. That's all I've got to say. They're doing the best job I've ever seen. Central casting's doing a great job, and it is truly one of the most amazing things to watch, the stupidity of the American people. But, that said, I have to say, about 25 years ago, I was writing a book about the moon, and working with Hoagland on his early moon stuff. And I was talking to a lot of upper?level NASA people, and one of the guys told me, he said, "There's something really going on, and we're terrified." And I said, "Well, what is it?" And he said, "Well, we've had a group up at the North Pole for five years, and they were studying..."

He wouldn't really tell me what they were studying, but he said that the sun is getting hotter, and it is exponential. And he said, "We're terrified." I've never talked to the guy again, but I'll never forget it. And this was before I'd really gotten into the Hendaye work. So it was like, as I got into the Hendaye work, the bead of sweat worked its way down my brow as I realized that NASA was looking into this, and there was no doubt about it.

Cliff:  Yeah. Yeah. And I've had confirmation at various different levels, from all different kinds of people, especially as I've gotten a certain amount of infamy here. Other people say, "Oh, yeah, you may be a nut?job, but I think I can trust you. And by the way, I know this." It's like, "Oh, OK, that's interesting." And tons of money and stuff going into the South Pole, because they do suspect that in 2012, the outburst will be south?facing. If we're very lucky, and it was magnetically positive, or north?aligned, then it wouldn't be quite so terrible for us. The pole flip would be maybe not even 180 degrees internally, and the external crustal shift might be very small indeed.

However, everything seems to point to the longer cycle that we're in, this 11,800?and?some?odd?year cycle, as being more intense. And it kind of makes sense because, when this occurs, it perturbs the orbits of the planets, which change the cycle for the next time around, thus all of the lack of precision within the precession, which always annoyed me.

Jay:  Me, too.

Cliff:  It shouldn't be that weird. It shouldn't be that irregular.

Jay:  Yeah.

Cliff:  It should be very damn precise. I like my mathematics to work out that way. Well, it does work out that way if you know what's going on, and that every so often you get a new orbital period and your angle's kicked around and your precession changes. Except me, and you get this "well, duh" moment, and that's when you start working on your boat.

Jay:  [laughs] Yes. The boat with a lot of padding, because, baby ?? go ahead.

Cliff:  There's the rub. If you look at some of the historical literature, you find out that people in wicker boats, that is to say the reed boats, survived by coating them in pitch and other things. And you see records of this even in Lake Titicaca, where they revere these boats for having saved the humankind.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  And it probably did.

Jay:  And the boats in Egypt that are stone, near the pyramids, are like a religion...

Cliff:  Yeah. And then look at, what was it, Abydos, the 12 Viking?style boats that were carefully disassembled and stored with reverence, to give us a big clue. And they were in the middle of the damn desert.

Jay:  And also, Isis is always standing on a crescent moon. And the crescent moon, in Egyptian, is called a "barc," which is the same word for boat.

Cliff:  I was going to say, also, the Russian word for boat is "baidar," and a small boat is "baidarka." And the Inuit know their boats as "baidar," from the Russians, but before that, they also had a word that was "aidar, " as in "aidark." So it just goes on and on and on.

Jay:  Absolutely.

Cliff:  And being a small?boat person, I'm a boat nut. I have been all my life. Universe just made me this way. It's my natural response to things. I've been building boats for so long that periodically I have the reduction?of?the?fleet [laughs] kind of moods, where I give boats away because I've got too many of them here and I'm afraid the wife's going to hit me with one of them.

Jay:  [laughs]

Cliff:  But in any event, knowing about boats as I do, I've been fascinated by it all. And then you find out that, yeah, it does kind of make sense. It is possible to make little, tiny boats that are unsinkable and self?righting. And basically, if you're in the right spot and your karma is good, you come through this kind of stuff, and a lot of the ancient myths make sense under those circumstances.

Jay:  Dang, I like that. That's really good. Oh, we only scratched the surface. It's too bad. We were talking to Cliff High. Go to HalfPastHuman, get the you?know?what scared out of you, and start building your boat. I think I need you to start a company for us, so we can build our own boats. And you can supply the plans. We'll buy them from you. Or something like that.

Cliff:  No, no. Buy the plans right now. Philip Bolger, Advanced Sharpie, AS?29.

Jay:  Oh, all right. I will. I'll check it out. You check it out, too, folks. Hey, thanks, Cliff. Been good talking to you.

Jay Weidner: I'm Jay Weidner. Make sure you check out www.sacredmysteries.com for all of our great films and videos like The Alchemical Dream with Terence McKenna, his last film in fact. Also the ultimate film on crop circles Stardreams. And also the two films that defined the entire 2012 subject: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013.

We're talking to Cliff High, and we're talking about his work and Patrick Geryl's work on magnetics of the sun and how this is probably the key to understanding the physics around what is going to happen in 2012. And the Nazis were obsessed by all this stuff. I've been following that story for a long time, and your discovery of the swastika type motion, looking down from the North, of this magnetic thing, it just strikes me. Because the Nazis have the black sun, and they have a lot of solar myths and motifs.

And when Hitler visited Hendaye in 1940 ?? I don't think I put this in the book ?? but he actually, the first thing he did as soon as the train car pulled into Hendaye was walk straight up to the Cross of Hendaye.

Cliff:  I'm very interested, then, yeah. Well, I hear that they took it actually form the Jain. The swastika actually was taken for the National Socialist Party from the symbols on the Jain palm, all of which are associated within the Jain cosmology with the sun and periodic catastrophes.

Jay:  Yes. And Jainism really comes as, like, a hybrid of Dravidian culture, which carried on a lot of the traditions that speak about catastrophe. In fact, they're the creators of the yuga system and all of that. So it's very interesting how all of this begins to dovetail together.

Cliff:  I think it's scary, yeah.

Jay:  It is scary.

Cliff:  If it was just one or two cultures, then you could convince yourself you were being nuts, that kind of thing. But repeatedly getting kicked in the head by all of this, and then seeing the non?random numbers, the continuous repetition from the Norse myths all the way through the Hindus and the Mayans, basically for the irrational component of the numbers associated with the sunspot cycle, and it's like, there is a big "hmm" in there.

Jay:  Yeah. The thing that people, I think, really have to understand, and it's very important because if you don't understand this, you don't get the rest of it: there really has to have been an advanced culture, a very advanced culture, in the distant past, and they figured all this out and did everything they could to pass that information down. And once you understand that, then everything begins to click together. But the key is to not look at it with your own filters, to try to look at it with what they were trying to tell us and not what you think they were trying to tell us. I think that's what you did. You looked at this with a clear head, and it's very frightening. I don't know what to say. I want to order one of your boats.

[laughter]

Jay:  I can get to 10,000 feet in about 20 minutes from where I live, but I don't know, I really don't.

Cliff:  Well, there is the issue. If this is as devastating as it seems to be, and there appears to be another cycle within these cycles of cataclysms ? in other words, every other one appears to be not quite so bad.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  And then we're at the point of one of the bad ones, unfortunately. And if you look at things like the Narmer plate, we're at the 12th cycle there. They actually recorded 11 previous cataclysms, and the only other group to do that is actually this Northern Siberian myth that records also eleven previous cataclysms, and that even actually records the one where Siberia was slipped in under the ice, and it has a little bit in there about having to flee from the ice that overcame them in just days and just simply wouldn't cease and how they had to basically run as a tribe from it. But anyway, it's all quite frightening. The idea of survival, though, does exist because we've done it before. I'm of the opinion that humans go back at least eight million years on this planet.

Jay:  Oh, good.

Cliff:  And there is demonstrable evidence from my relatives' area in California of this. I mean, they used to do gold mining in the area, and they would go down to bedrock ? or not bedrock, to layers that had been covered over by the mountains eight million years ago, and they would find modern homo sapiens skeletons in the gravel bed.

Jay:  Anyone famous?

Cliff:  Some of them with clothing still sort of hanging on. They didn't put them in there any other way. They weren't swept into the gravel recently. And so if that's the case, then we have to say, "Well, we've been through it so repeatedly that you're probably correct. There was probably a master civilization, maybe 40,000 or 50,000 years back, that set things in motion in terms of trying to preserve this, which basically leads us up to the perversions of the Freemasonry idea today.

Jay:  And the creation ? what religions are really about, which is passing on this message and trying to make people, in a way, fearless, because one day you're going to have to be fearless to survive this kind of thing. How many days long does this take, do you think? Are we going to get hit by a coronal mass ejection and then we're going to get hit by the other things?

Cliff:  It's all part of a process. There will probably be a bow wave, and then that instantly, or completely, or being driven by it pushing, it will be the CME, and then we'll get the flips of the magnetics, and then the crustal action. And there are some suggestions that 40 or 50 days is not unlikely. However, the actual flip of the crust is probably a 40?50 hour process based on my reading of the historical records that are available to be gotten at in this. The issue is the whole process, though, can be thought of as probably a year long, because the build?up to it is quite exceptional.

I had the good fortune when I was a kid ?? or bad fortune, I don't know, whatever ?? to be stuck in Germany as one of the earliest of the dependents of the education forces, and was forced to read a lot because there just wasn't a whole lot else to do.

And I came across a bunch of books that were stored in this old SS building that we used as a library where we were stationed there, and some of these books were really interesting, and they had translations of languages I had never seen before as a kid, and they were done for the German military.

And it was strange books, and some of them were obviously done by people that were prisoners of the Germans, one British fellow who made annotations in his translations as he went along. And he translated a bunch of Sanskrit.

And I read these marvelous stories about this civilization, which I now know to be probably the Harappan civilization, that were discussing about this particular village, and it was from the viewpoint of this headmaster who had all of this stuff set down, and he was the guy who controlled the size of the bricks.

Basically, their hierarchy was in masonry, but it was about building the houses and stuff. But in any event, he talks about a period where the houses fell over because of a big earthquake. No big deal, they rebuilt them. Well, three weeks later they all fell over again because of another big earthquake, so they rebuilt them again.

And it goes on and on this way until about three or four months later they're getting an earthquake a day, and finally everybody is living in tents because there's just no point in rebuilding the houses anymore. And it was then that the translator of that particular book tied that over to another book that he had translated for the Germans that was related to the myth of Manu, the survivor by a boat. And so going back, they were intimately and desperately interested in this information.

Jay:  And then that carries forth into NASA. NASA is desperately interested in this information. And of course the Nazis, German scientists were at the beginning of NASA, which is another incredibly interesting subject. We'll be right back